[general] Non-binary inclusive Quotas

[Yuri]

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If I can actually do that, I would like to object against a quota system,
unless a quota for people with red hair is added as well. (of 4%, according
to the number of red haired people in Europe)
Maybe we should also consider a quota for people who like to eat spaghetti?

Although I'm personally not a fan of the quota system for its intended
purposes, do you think red-haired people and those who like spaghetti
are equally marginalised and treated differently because of those traits
as people of different genders?


- --
Public Key: 0x134013C2
http://aquawings.net/keys/yuri_at_aquawings.asc

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[Yuri]

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Hey there,

Julia and I just had a conversation on Twitter about the EU quotas on
funding for PLASK and we ended up wondering if there were possibilities
of making quotas more inclusive of non-cis people.

Since I am not an avid supporter of quotas, perhaps you have better
ideas than me about that.

Here is a pad where you can write anything that you can think of:
http://piratepad.net/gender-equality

Looking forward to your contributions!

~Yuri


- --
Public Key: 0x134013C2
http://aquawings.net/keys/yuri_at_aquawings.asc

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[Yuri]

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Hi,

thanks Julia!

Since there was not so much other feedback, I presume most people didn't
have a problem with the initial quota system, but probably won't object
to the changes you proposed either [I hope].

If you have any other
suggestions, please let me know!

Personally, I always find it regretful if spaces go empty because of
quotas. I feel like this is helping nobody really [unless your goal is
to have the minority/marginalised group applicants not feel 'threatened'
by a majority - which I hope is not the case for YPE?].

What are your thoughts on this?


- --
Public Key: 0x134013C2
http://aquawings.net/keys/yuri_at_aquawings.asc

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[Julia Reda]

If a gender-quota is needed for legal reasons of some sort, you can
disregard the previous paragraphs.

Well, actually it is required to list the gender distribution in the
project application and I've tried to find the most inclusive solution
possible, which in my opinion happens to be 50/50 with people who don't
identify as either male or female being counted towards either side of
the quota.

Also: What Yuri says.

Julia

[Jonas Degrave]

If I can actually do that, I would like to object against a quota system,
unless a quota for people with red hair is added as well. (of 4%, according
to the number of red haired people in Europe)

Maybe we should also consider a quota for people who like to eat spaghetti?

If a gender-quota is needed for legal reasons of some sort, you can
disregard the previous paragraphs.

Sincerely,

Jonas Degrave

Post by Yuri
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Hi,
thanks Julia!
Since there was not so much other feedback, I presume most people didn't
have a problem with the initial quota system, but probably won't object
to the changes you proposed either [I hope].

If you have any other
suggestions, please let me know!

Personally, I always find it regretful if spaces go empty because of
quotas. I feel like this is helping nobody really [unless your goal is
to have the minority/marginalised group applicants not feel 'threatened'
by a majority - which I hope is not the case for YPE?].
What are your thoughts on this?
- --
Public Key: 0x134013C2
http://aquawings.net/keys/yuri_at_aquawings.asc
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[Julia Reda]

Hi Yuri,

I have tried to take your criticism into account when writing the
application for funding of our March conference. Instead of writing
that half of the participants have to be male/female, I have written
that the promoters will ensure that the group is gender-balanced. This
will give us the chance to apply any of the quota ideas you have
presented. I think that given the disproportionate number of male
Young Pirates in most organisations, a negative quota is probably a
good approach, i.e. "not more than 50% male".

Also, I have included a networking session for female and genderqueer
Young Pirates in the project application. If you have any other
suggestions, please let me know!

Julia

Post by Yuri
Hey there,
Julia and I just had a conversation on Twitter about the EU quotas
on funding for PLASK and we ended up wondering if there were
possibilities of making quotas more inclusive of non-cis people.
Since I am not an avid supporter of quotas, perhaps you have
better ideas than me about that.
http://piratepad.net/gender-equality
Looking forward to your contributions!
~Yuri

[Jonas Degrave]

Post by Yuri
Although I'm personally not a fan of the quota system for its intended
purposes, do you think red-haired people and those who like spaghetti
are equally marginalised and treated differently because of those traits
as people of different genders?

No, I don't think so. But if the above is a valid argument for adding
quota, I want quotas for the arab speaking minority in Europe and for the
group of people with an IQ<80. Or maybe even a quota for people who are not
a member of a political party? Those are currently way more
underrepresented than women.

Sincerely,

Jonas Degrave

Post by Yuri
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If I can actually do that, I would like to object against a quota system,
unless a quota for people with red hair is added as well. (of 4%,

according

to the number of red haired people in Europe)
Maybe we should also consider a quota for people who like to eat

spaghetti?
Although I'm personally not a fan of the quota system for its intended
purposes, do you think red-haired people and those who like spaghetti
are equally marginalised and treated differently because of those traits
as people of different genders?
- --
Public Key: 0x134013C2
http://aquawings.net/keys/yuri_at_aquawings.asc
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[Paul Berettoni (cmal)]

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We're getting off-topic now. As Julia explained, this gender balance
is a requirement for public funding for our events so this discussion
should focus on whether we should indeed somehow set up a gender quota
and get public funding, or not.

If you wish to discuss internal regulations regarding the setup of
more quotas, please open another topic.

Thanks !

Freely,
Paul (cmal)

PS : I would still point out that one's IQ or knowledge of a language
is not very likely to result in discrimination considering such
characteristics cannot be spotted so easily.

One's gender − or one's lack of gender − on the other hand, is usually
linked to typical clothing and/or behavior and it is usual for people
to be actually discriminated because of their gender.

Typically, women will − even subconsciously − be considered less fit
for public communication or political concerns. And that's a fact we
all have to face and fight, even those of us − including myself −
defending the idea that the State should not recognize a such notion.

Post by Jonas Degrave

Post by Yuri
Although I'm personally not a fan of the quota system for its
intended purposes, do you think red-haired people and those who
like spaghetti are equally marginalised and treated differently
because of those traits as people of different genders?

No, I don't think so. But if the above is a valid argument for
adding quota, I want quotas for the arab speaking minority in
Europe and for the group of people with an IQ<80. Or maybe even a
quota for people who are not a member of a political party? Those
are currently way more underrepresented than women.
Sincerely,
Jonas Degrave

Post by Yuri
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If I can actually do that, I would like to object against a
quota system, unless a quota for people with red hair is added
as well. (of 4%,

according

to the number of red haired people in Europe)
Maybe we should also consider a quota for people who like to
eat

spaghetti?
Although I'm personally not a fan of the quota system for its
intended purposes, do you think red-haired people and those who
like spaghetti are equally marginalised and treated differently
because of those traits as people of different genders?
- -- Public Key: 0x134013C2
http://aquawings.net/keys/yuri_at_aquawings.asc
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[Julia Reda]

OK, public funding it is. Does it need to be 50/50, or would something
like: "maximum 60% of either gender" also make sense? Then we don't have to
find EXACTLY the same number from either group.

As I found out yesterday, in the Youth in Action application form, you
have to specify the gender of every single participant. Since we don't
know who they are going to be yet, I figured that 50/50 would be the
fairest solution, so I put that down and added a comment that youths who
don't identify as male or female (or both) can be counted towards either
category.

Julia

[Jonas Degrave]

Post by Paul Berettoni (cmal)
We're getting off-topic now. As Julia explained, this gender balance
is a requirement for public funding for our events so this discussion
should focus on whether we should indeed somehow set up a gender quota
and get public funding, or not.

OK, public funding it is. Does it need to be 50/50, or would something
like: "maximum 60% of either gender" also make sense? Then we don't have to
find EXACTLY the same number from either group.

If you wish to discuss internal regulations regarding the setup of

Post by Paul Berettoni (cmal)
more quotas, please open another topic.

For clarity, I talked about the subjects of quotas for other minorities to
make a case of not adding any quotas, since it would be very hypocritical
to add a quota for only one underrepresented part of society, which has
managed to get enough representation in order to get those quotas. It would
indeed have been more clearly if I said so explicitly. Therefore, I reckon
opening another topic on the issue will not be needed.

Sincerely,

Jonas Degrave

Post by Paul Berettoni (cmal)
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Hash: SHA1
We're getting off-topic now. As Julia explained, this gender balance
is a requirement for public funding for our events so this discussion
should focus on whether we should indeed somehow set up a gender quota
and get public funding, or not.
If you wish to discuss internal regulations regarding the setup of
more quotas, please open another topic.
Thanks !
Freely,
Paul (cmal)
PS : I would still point out that one's IQ or knowledge of a language
is not very likely to result in discrimination considering such
characteristics cannot be spotted so easily.
One's gender - or one's lack of gender - on the other hand, is usually
linked to typical clothing and/or behavior and it is usual for people
to be actually discriminated because of their gender.
Typically, women will - even subconsciously - be considered less fit
for public communication or political concerns. And that's a fact we
all have to face and fight, even those of us - including myself -
defending the idea that the State should not recognize a such notion.

Post by Jonas Degrave

Post by Yuri
Although I'm personally not a fan of the quota system for its
intended purposes, do you think red-haired people and those who
like spaghetti are equally marginalised and treated differently
because of those traits as people of different genders?

No, I don't think so. But if the above is a valid argument for
adding quota, I want quotas for the arab speaking minority in
Europe and for the group of people with an IQ<80. Or maybe even a
quota for people who are not a member of a political party? Those
are currently way more underrepresented than women.
Sincerely,
Jonas Degrave

Post by Yuri
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

If I can actually do that, I would like to object against a
quota system, unless a quota for people with red hair is added
as well. (of 4%,

according

to the number of red haired people in Europe)
Maybe we should also consider a quota for people who like to eat

spaghetti?
Although I'm personally not a fan of the quota system for its
intended purposes, do you think red-haired people and those who
like spaghetti are equally marginalised and treated differently
because of those traits as people of different genders?
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